Hotmail: Errors Retrieving Messages

[pop_pepper]

so yesterday i finally got round to fire fighting pop peeper and all the accounts i got logged out off because of unusual activatey on gmail. sorted itfinally


now this, grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr

[mjs]

In regards to Hotmail issues, please refer to this announcement topic: Hotmail/Outlook IMAP errors. (updates regarding progress towards an official POP Peeper release that will mitigate the current IMAP Server issues will be posted here)

[Jeff]

v4.4 beta is now publicly available:
viewtopic.php?f=2&t=6791&p=34229#p34229

[YourKoolPal]

v4.4 beta is now publicly available:
viewtopic.php?f=2&t=6791&p=34229#p34229

Hi Jeff, how do I install Plus Pack for this version?

[Jeff]

The Plus Pack doesn't have an update so you shouldn't have to do anything special. Or if you're installing to a separate folder for testing purposes, you can download the last released version of the Plus Pack here:
http://www.esumsoft.com/productrequest/
- you'd probably want to have it email the download links so that you can download the "Plus Pack only" installation.

[bacardistuff]

Clicking on the exclamation point in the yellow circle brings up nothing. I feel pretty confident that I tried that long before I wrote in.

[mjs]

Clicking on the exclamation point in the yellow circle brings up nothing. I feel pretty confident that I tried that long before I wrote in.

If POP Peeper is not doing a Mail Check that is you would see what is pointed out to the left then if you click on what is pointed out on the right (yellow exclamation) to open Error Overview interface (CLICK ON IMAGE TO ENLARGE):

CLICK ON SCREEN-SHOT TO ENLARGE FOR BETTER VISIBILITY
Status bar shows pending time until next mail check (arrow to the left)
Then if you click on yellow exclamation this will open the Error Overview Window

... after clicking on yellow exclamation icon you will then get the following Error Overview interface:

Error Overview popup window.png (24.97 KiB) Viewed 11902 times

You will also see account(s) that are underlined that have error(s), i.e. in this case the one account that is redacted in the screen-shot above will have an underline underneath it in the left account list pane of the POP Peeper main window.

[YourKoolPal]

The Plus Pack doesn't have an update so you shouldn't have to do anything special. Or if you're installing to a separate folder for testing purposes, you can download the last released version of the Plus Pack here:
http://www.esumsoft.com/productrequest/
- you'd probably want to have it email the download links so that you can download the "Plus Pack only" installation.

Thank you! This worked for me.

[burtp]

Jeff,

I run an email client called eM Client for some mail accounts where I need local retention of messages. I sometimes use if for Hotmail /Outlook.com as well. It was experiencing the same IMAP communication issues as PopPeeper, until a post on the eM Client forum suggested switching to using the Exchange Web Services option in eM Client for Hotmail acounts. It works flawlessly and is quick. May be something to look into.

A free 2-account version of eM Client is available at http://www.emclient.com/?lang=en.

Exchange Web Services info can be found at https://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/librar ... .150).aspx
with details for mail apps at https://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/librar ... .150).aspx

Apologies if you already knew about this...Burt

[Jeff]

Thanks for the tip, burt! In fact, I was not aware of EWS. I knew about EAS (Exchange ActiveSync), which I thought was Microsoft's only proprietary API but which requires a paid license to use. Ok, well, that's very interesting. It's not something that can be spliced together quickly (ie. I won't delay v4.4), but I will definitely be taking a look at it.

[webmjmweb]

After trying all the suggestions in this message trail without success (I almost always got timeouts or bad connections on receive, and immediate error 0 on send, unless using IMAP, in which case they sometimes sent after a couple minutes, sometimes timed out), including the upgrade to POP Peeper v4.4 Beta 3, I finally set my Hotmail smtp server for each of my two accounts to:

smtp.live.com

And now both send and receive are working immediately without errors. I had been using the servers:

smtp.hotmail.com
and
mail.hotmail.com

Which both consistently failed the server test. smtp.live.com immediately passes it.

Account type: Hotmail/Outlook
Send type: SMTP, STARTTLS
SMTP port: 587

Here are my ping results on these strings. Note that only the first one (the one now working) shows the server name and resolved address of the redirected server. The server addresses are different for each as of this set of pings at least, and can be expected to change regularly. See same server name but different resolved address on second try of smtp.live.com (last ping below):

C:\>ping smtp.live.com

Pinging smtp.glbdns2.microsoft.com [65.55.163.152] with 32 bytes of data:
Request timed out.
Request timed out.
Request timed out.
Request timed out.
Ping statistics for 65.55.163.152:
Packets: Sent = 1, Received = 0, Lost = 1 (100% loss),

C:\>ping smtp.hotmail.com
Ping request could not find host smtp.hotmail.com. Please check the name and try again.

C:\>ping mail.hotmail.com

Pinging mail.hotmail.com [65.55.72.183] with 32 bytes of data:
Request timed out.
Request timed out.
Request timed out.
Request timed out.

Ping statistics for 65.55.72.183:
Packets: Sent = 4, Received = 0, Lost = 4 (100% loss),

C:\>ping smtp.live.com

Pinging smtp.glbdns2.microsoft.com [65.55.176.126] with 32 bytes of data:
Request timed out.
Request timed out.
Request timed out.
Request timed out.

Ping statistics for 65.55.176.126:
Packets: Sent = 4, Received = 0, Lost = 4 (100% loss)

I've only tried a half dozen tests, so maybe I'm just lucky here, but it's good so far, after failing on either send, receive, or both for the last month.

Update: Dozens of tests now on send, receive, and delete, with no errors, no timeouts, first time in a month. I'm thinking the string "smtp.live.com" delivers one of a range of servers that are not subject to the connection & timeout problems.

[mjs]

For all MSN accounts (Hotmail/Outlook.com accts) it is now recommended to use "Webmail" (Hotmail/Outlook) for the accounts "Server type" and to use "SMTP" for the "Send option" in Send Mail settings. By using these settings (illustrated below) the persistent MSN Server errors that have been an issue for more than a month will be essentially resolved.

Server Type

Use Webmail.png (7.92 KiB) Viewed 11809 times

Send Mail

Send.png (6.83 KiB) Viewed 11809 times

Note: Since changing all 10 of my MSN accounts (from IMAP and/or POP3) to these settings I have not seen any MSN account errors at all over the past 24 hours.

[mjs]

Update: Dozens of tests now on send, receive, and delete, with no errors, no timeouts, first time in a month. I'm thinking the string "smtp.live.com" delivers one of a range of servers that are not subject to the connection & timeout problems.

Has POP Peeper actually been retrieving messages for the testing you have been doing?

My guess is that you have not been receiving messages for these accounts in POP Peeper (I realize you may not be getting any errors during PP Mail Checks).

Of course you may not have been receiving messages on your MSN accounts perhaps but I think if you have been you will find that POP Peeper has not been retrieving them.

You might check the Inbox for one of your MSN accounts by logging into the account on the web and see if you have any "new" messages and check to see if POP Peeper has actually retrieved these "new" messages since the Server change you have made.

If you haven't any "new" messages since testing this new Server setting then try sending a message to one of the MSN accounts and see if POP Peeper is actually retrieving the "new" message that arrives in the accounts inbox on the web.

My guess is that you will find that POP Peeper is not retrieving any "new" messages while using the "smtp.live.com" Server setting. Oddly enough you may not get errors in POP Peeper if you happen to use the "STARTTLS" encryption setting, as opposed to SSL/TLS that will produce errors, but at the same time I don't think you will find POP Peeper retrieving "new" messages either.

At least these are the results I get testing your setup.

Please report back your findings on this if you will, thanks.

FYI note: I may be wrong, but I think you are using the old Windows Live Mail Server address. Windows no longer supports Windows Live Mail as far as I'm aware and since that time the Outlook.com settings for incoming IMAP Servers has been using the "imap-mail.outlook.com" address on Port 993 and for outgoing is "smtp-mail.outlook.com" and Port 587 which is what PP will automatically be set at when using the IMAP protocol for MSN accounts (POP3 incoming will of course use the "pop-mail.outlook.com" Server address).

[Jeff]

I'm sorry to poke a hole in your theory, but the SMTP server has nothing to do with IMAP -- they are 2 completely separate processes. And, as lakrsrool mentioned, the official smtp server to use is smtp-mail.outlook.com.

This:
Account type: Hotmail/Outlook
is the reason why your account is working better now -- you're using the webmail protocol instead of imap.

You may have read on the beta download page that this (webmail) protocol is now the preferred protocol. This alternate protocol was suggested as a solution in the official announcement. If I had my druthers, POP3 is a better choice (Hotmail's POP3 server do have issues, too, but nowhere near as bad as imap), but POP3 is disabled by default on the server and, since it wouldn't work out-of-the box, I've grudgingly resurrected webmail as the preferred protocol.

[mjs]

I see what Jeff is referring to now and that is precisely why you would not get errors and in that case POP Peeper would in fact be retrieving messages as well (so if that is the case, just ignore my post above regarding results of testing the "smtp.live.com" Server address, because that is not what was being done if the "Server type" is set to "Hotmail/Outlook").

As far as this part of the post which I presume Jeff is looking at to conclude "Webmail" is being used, I figured that the reference to "Account type" (in red below) is referring to MSN (Hotmail/Outlook.com) accounts and not the "Webmail" setting for account "Server type" (still not totally sure if that is what is meant here however ):

Account type: Hotmail/Outlook
Send type: SMTP, STARTTLS
SMTP port: 587

in which case if the reference to "Account type" means the "Server type" setting for the account then, yes the "Webmail" protocol is being used and is what is recommended and as a result avoids the MSN IMAP Server issues.

I was looking at this part of the post however and assuming that the IMAP protocol was being used with this Server address mentioned below (in red):

Update: Dozens of tests now on send, receive, and delete, with no errors, no timeouts, first time in a month. I'm thinking the string "smtp.live.com" delivers one of a range of servers that are not subject to the connection & timeout problems.

and this is what I was referring to as far as PP not retrieving messages even though oddly enough there are no errors in PP if STARTTLS is used.

But yes, bottom line: If the PP accounts "Server type" for MSN accounts is "Hotmail/OUtlook" (Webmail) then this is what Jeff is reluctantly recommending in order to circumvent the MSN IMAP Server issues and would be the reason no errors occur.

[webmjmweb]

I could usually send messages with the account type set to IMAP for some reason, but only after a long time, or several retries.

To receive messages, I had to switch the account type to Hotmail/Outlook. But with that setting, I could not send messages at all (instant Error 0), but I received messages instantly.

Setting the account type to Hotmail/Outlook was not enough for the successful operations I am now seeing.

With the only change being "smtp.live.com", both send and receive now work on both accounts for the first time in a month. I have checked and compared the contents as seen through direct login through the browser interface to Hotmail, and as seen by PP. They are exactly in synch on all read, send, and delete operations. I have had test emails to and from several sources.

I got the string "smtp.live.com" from this article after Google search on "hotmail smtp server settings 2017" :
https://www.lifewire.com/what-are-windo ... gs-1170861

I can't account for the sudden success at this smtp server string change, and I cannot say at this point whether that is the only string that works, or whether it has Microsoft sanction. Also, the default SMTP server names that appear under Edit Account -> Send Mail -> SMTP Server -> click on "..." were always (and still are) :
smtp.hotmail.com
mail.hotmail.com
Both are checked, and despite adding "smtp.live.com" to that list, and having it appear and remain as my SMTP Server, it does not stay in that list. Running the "Test selected servers" on those two fails. Running it on smtp.mail.live returns instant success. I have never seen "smtp-mail.outlook.com" here, and have not tried that one (but will do that next).

Update: Just to clarify, the settings I now have with everything working are: my Edit Account -> General -> Server type is "Hotmail/Outlook", which automatically sets the server DNS name to "imap-mail.outlook.com". My Edit Account -> Send Mail -> Send option is "SMTP", with "STARTTLS", SMTP server is "smtp.live.com", Port is 587.

As I said, I had to toggle between Server types of IMAP and Hotmail/Outlook for the past month to (respectively) send and receive messages, where send only worked under IMAP, and only after either a long wait, or several retries after timeouts. Simply setting my Server type to Hotmail/Outlook never (for the past month) gave me all of send, receive and delete.

[mjs]

Update: Just to clarify, the settings I now have with everything working are: my Edit Account -> General -> Server type is "Hotmail/Outlook", which automatically sets the server DNS name to "imap-mail.outlook.com". My Edit Account -> Send Mail -> Send option is "SMTP", with "STARTTLS", SMTP server is "smtp.live.com", Port is 587.

As I said, I had to toggle between Server types of IMAP and Hotmail/Outlook for the past month to (respectively) send and receive messages, where send only worked under IMAP, and only after either a long wait, or several retries after timeouts. Simply setting my Server type to Hotmail/Outlook never (for the past month) gave me all of send, receive and delete.

Specific to your comments, Pete (spc3rd) has explained it well and illustrated in detail on page 4 of this topic in response to someone who was doing something similar to what you were doing (switching between "Webmail" and "IMAP" to receive/send messages respectively) before you eventually had Send Mail use SMTP.

Simply using "Webmail" (Server type = "Hotmail/Outlook") and SMTP for the "Send option" will allow both the receiving and sending of messages to work successfully. As far as needing to use the "smtp.live.com" Server address for the SMTP setting, while this will apparently work you can just leave the Server address to the PP default "smtp-mail.outlook.com" that is automatically set when using SMTP for the accounts "Send option" (which by the way is now the default "Send option" (SMTP) setting when using "Webmail" (Server type = "Hotmail/Outlook") for MSN accounts as of PPv4.4 Beta 03).

[webmjmweb]

No, that is what I had been using all along. These settings did not work:

"Simply using "Webmail" (Server type = "Hotmail/Outlook") and SMTP for the "Send option" will allow both the receiving and sending of messages to work successfully."

I tried that hundreds of times. It was only when I changed the SMTP server name manually that everything began to work (suggesting that it is indeed some conflict between some of the MS SMTP servers and PP, but not other MS SMTP servers).

I also just tried it with Account -> Send mail -> SMTP Server set to smtp-mail.outlook.com (manually, it did not fill in automatically), and all operations work fine using that DNS name as well. It appears that my problems have been solved by using either:

Edit Account -> Send Mail -> Send option "SMTP", with "STARTTLS", SMTP server is "smtp.live.com", Port is 587.
or
Edit Account -> Send Mail -> Send option is "SMTP", with "STARTTLS", SMTP server is "smtp-mail.outlook.com", Port is 587.

And again, I'm running POP Peeper v4.4 Beta 3 now.

[mjs]

No, that is what I had been using all along. These settings did not work:

"Simply using "Webmail" (Server type = "Hotmail/Outlook") and SMTP for the "Send option" will allow both the receiving and sending of messages to work successfully."

I tried that hundreds of times. It was only when I changed the SMTP server name manually that everything began to work (suggesting that it is indeed some conflict between some of the MS SMTP servers and PP, but not other MS SMTP servers).

I also just tried it with Account -> Send mail -> SMTP Server set to smtp-mail.outlook.com (manually, it did not fill in automatically), and all operations work fine using that DNS name as well. It appears that my problems have been solved by using either:

Edit Account -> Send Mail -> Send option "SMTP", with "STARTTLS", SMTP server is "smtp.live.com", Port is 587.
or
Edit Account -> Send Mail -> Send option is "SMTP", with "STARTTLS", SMTP server is "smtp-mail.outlook.com", Port is 587.

And again, I'm running POP Peeper v4.4 Beta 3 now.

For me in PP v4.4 Beta 3, when I change an MSN account from anything other than "Webmail" (that is the account could be either IMAP or POP3) to "Webmail" (that is Server type = "Hotmail/Outlook") then I get the following default settings automatically for "Send Mail":

Which includes "SMTP" protocol using "smtp-mail.outlook.com" Server address on Port 587.

Webmail automatic send settings.png (8.02 KiB) Viewed 11750 times

This automatic default setting of SMTP protocol with the above settings for MSN accounts using "Webmail" occurs when either adding a new account or changing an account that was not previously using "Webmail" (not previously "Hotmail/Outlook" Server type).

Yes, either of those two "Send Mail" settings will work, either the one you modified or what is now the default in Beta 3 for specifically MSN accounts using the "Webmail" protocol. So we are in agreement on this.

Addendum: Oh, and by the way - for those interested, still zero errors for me now after 36 hours using the new Webmail settings for MSN accounts (that Beta3 has implemented). And I know MSN still has issues with their IMAP Servers because I leave one account using IMAP w/ no retries and this account has had 4 errors that I've noticed in just the past 12 hours.

[webmjmweb]

No errors here either since my changes (after constant errors for over a month). I really like PP, and am glad to see this resolved. Thanks to the developers & contributors.