Gmail started with offering IMAP

Alf · Post by **Alf** » Wed Oct 24, 2007 5:02 am

More information
IMAP Access

EDIT: This isn't working for all accounts yet. Seems Gmail is rolling out at the moment.

lwc · Post by **lwc** » Wed Oct 24, 2007 6:13 am

You beat me announcing this. I think the world's largest webmail service supporting IMAP means a death blow to POP (assuming lots of people actually used Gmail's POP support and would now use its IMAP support).

What's for sure, once PP users start using it, Jeff is finally going to have a huge test lab for Imap.

It's important to thank Jeff for adding SSL support for IMAP just in time because in Gmail it's a must!

Also, just the extensive help sub-site for Imap is worth it alone. For example, Jeff may want to read the page that says which features Gmail doesn't support in Imap or how does Gmail sync messages (hint: a message can only be deleted by moving it into either the Spam or Trash folder).

I can't wait till they roll Imap support in my account.

Alf · Post by **Alf** » Wed Oct 24, 2007 6:44 am

lwc wrote:It's important to thank Jeff for adding SSL support for IMAP just in time because in Gmail it's a must!

I'm sure he had some knowledge of the upcoming feature...

lwc wrote:Also, just the extensive help sub-site for Imap is worth it alone. For example, Jeff may want to read the page that says which features Gmail doesn't support in Imap or how does Gmail sync messages (hint: a message can only be deleted by moving it into either the Spam or Trash folder).

Let's hope that this Upcoming feature:

Future Versions
Webmail and IMAP: read other folders

is put near/at the top of the PP ToDo-list...

Post by **Jeff** » Wed Oct 24, 2007 5:08 pm

I think the world's largest webmail service supporting IMAP means a death blow to POP (assuming lots of people actually used Gmail's POP support and would now use its IMAP support).

I was never a fan of GMail's POP3 support; it had too many issues such as limited number of messages, automatically deleting messages, etc.

For example, Jeff may want to read the page that says which features Gmail doesn't support in Imap

ref: https://mail.google.com/support/bin/ans ... opic=12762

PP doesn't use any of those features. It's interesting that they don't support the \Recent flag (which indicates the message is new).

My account doesn't have access yet, so if somebody's does, can they confirm if "idle" is supported and does it work correctly? Idle doesn't necessarily rely on the recent flag to work, but they are obviously related...

(hint: a message can only be deleted by moving it into either the Spam or Trash folder).

According to the chart:
https://mail.google.com/support/bin/ans ... opic=12762
Deleting a message will "remove the message from the inbox" which seems a little vague, but perhaps intentionally so. It's up to the email client to move the message to the trash. Which, by default, PP will do so.

I can't wait till they roll Imap support in my account.

So I'm not the only one constantly hitting "refresh" and/or signing out/in...

For those that are interested, GMail's Imap Help section:
https://mail.google.com/support/bin/top ... opic=12760

lwc · Post by **lwc** » Wed Oct 24, 2007 8:35 pm

Jeff wrote:I was never a fan of GMail's POP3 support; it had too many issues such as limited number of messages, automatically deleting messages, etc.

The latter is a feature. You could control it via Gmail's settings.

So I'm not the only one constantly hitting "refresh" and/or signing out/in...

I actually use POP for it most of the time. I just like the idea of IMAP.

For those that are interested, GMail's Imap Help section

Our friend Alf already gave that link.

Post by **war1** » Thu Oct 25, 2007 2:40 am

Jeff wrote:My account doesn't have access yet, so if somebody's does, can they confirm if "idle" is supported and does it work correctly? Idle doesn't necessarily rely on the recent flag to work, but they are obviously related...

I can confirm that you can check the box in PP for IDLE. I assume that automatically means IDLE works.

I just tested by sending a test email to Gmail from one of my other account. With IDLE selected in PP, email downloaded right away.

Jeff wrote:According to the chart:
https://mail.google.com/support/bin/ans ... opic=12762
Deleting a message will "remove the message from the inbox" which seems a little vague, but perhaps intentionally so. It's up to the email client to move the message to the trash. Which, by default, PP will do so.

In Gmail IMAP, using Outlook Express, deleting a message in Inbox removes it from Inbox but does not place it in Trash. A copy remains in All Mail folder. To move to Trash, you have to drag and drop or right click and select Move.

I justed tested. Deleting a message in PP does the same as above, removes it from Inbox. Nothing in Trash. A copy remains in All Mail.

In OE, All Mail, Sent, Trash, and Spam folders act like normal IMAP folders. Deleting puts an line through title. Edit > Purge deletes the email permanently.

Post by **JRF** » Thu Oct 25, 2007 11:39 am

Thank you for the good research/explanations , war1 .

So , when the recipe for PP-Gmail-Imap is developed , IDLE should not be forgotten .

john73 · Post by **john73** » Thu Oct 25, 2007 11:43 am

Idle feature working fine for me also.

Post by **Jeff** » Tue Oct 30, 2007 6:41 pm

I got an email from someone that said GMail had changed the interface on their account and PP no longer works. I had heard this might be happening and was wondering if anyone else's accounts had changed. I'm still waiting for Imap and wonder if it's related.

Oh, wonder of all wonders -- I just checked again and I have imap access; wasn't there a few hours ago

My webmail access still works, so the two aren't directly related, but perhaps those of you who got imap last week will get the new interface sooner?

Post by **war1** » Wed Oct 31, 2007 12:05 pm

Jeff, I have the new UI, but I can access Gmail with IMAP and POP3. I do not use PP web interface login.

lwc · Post by **lwc** » Wed Oct 31, 2007 9:08 pm

Jeff, now that you have Imap in Gmail, did you try checking their (unique?) way to delete messages?

Post by **Jeff** » Thu Nov 01, 2007 4:15 pm

now that you have Imap in Gmail, did you try checking their (unique?) way to delete messages?

I have tested the imap delete. The reason the copy to trash doesn't work is because the folders aren't setup in the traditional way. I suspect gmail made trash a top-level folder, and it's usually a subfolder under inbox. This may have been by design, because of the way they don't really delete messages, you'd end up with 2 copies of the message -- one in trash and one in all-mail. Hopefully they'll add an option that will allow delete to actually delete the message.

I have the new UI

Maybe I'll get it next week then...

lwc · Post by **lwc** » Fri Nov 02, 2007 6:23 am

I think you're confusing Trash with All Mail. The trash copy happens via POP too (when you delete a message, it arrives in the trash which PP can't see). But it's not so bad because it gets deleted automatically after 30 days.

In Imap the copy after delete goes to All Mail instead of Trash (like in POP) and so doesn't get deleted automatically after 30 days. BTW, even if they add an option to "really" delete, they would still probably put a copy in Trash (a-la POP).

Post by **Jeff** » Mon Nov 05, 2007 5:55 pm

I was talking about what imap clients do when they delete a message. Imap clients will first "copy" the message to the trash folder, and then call the command to "delete" the message. Since Imap has certain expectations (ie. that folders exist) that POP3 doesn't (ie. there's just an "inbox"), it's usually up to the imap client to move messages to the trash, whereas if you delete a message to POP3, it would be the responsibility of the webmail server to move it to the trash folder.

As far as gmail, specifically, is concerned, gmail has decided that a "delete" command will simply remove the message from "inbox" but not actually delete the message (or move it to trash). IMO, this is counter-intuitive. If deleting the message moves it to trash, that is exactly what I would want (as opposed to a permanent delete). Maybe I'm not the typical user, but I don't click&drag messages to the trash to delete them; I press the delete key.

lwc · Post by **lwc** » Mon Nov 05, 2007 7:38 pm

Well, I can tell you that if I delete a Gmail message via POP, it's still in the trash. But I guess that's the part where it's the server's responsibility.

Anyway, so what do you plan to do about Gmail's unique (non) deletion issue? I won't move to Imap there unless you support it. I don't want to click delete on something and know it's not really deleted.

Post by **Jeff** » Tue Nov 06, 2007 6:59 pm

The only thing I can do would be to support folders, and that's not an overnight change. But something you can do -- find gmail's contact form and tell them to add the option to permanently delete.

2. When messages are deleted with Imap:
a) keep Gmail's copy in All Mail
b) archive GMail's copy
c) delete GMail's copy

lwc · Post by **lwc** » Wed Nov 07, 2007 6:56 am

I guess I won't be moving to Imap in Gmail any time soon, but I will contact them.

Update: I've removed the various contact links that were mentioned here by me because they became dead links over time. Besides, the links actually seemed to have done their job!

Post by **Jeff** » Wed Nov 07, 2007 4:12 pm

Thanks for the contact link, I always have difficulty finding those forms

I've sent in my own request as well.

lwc · Post by **lwc** » Wed Nov 07, 2007 5:45 pm

I hope others will join us filling that form (or posting in the linked discussion).

They've just sent me a reply. Here's the relevant text:

While Gmail doesn't currently support a way to change this functionality,
we are testing many new features to improve the Gmail service.

We are forwarding your feature request to the appropriate team.

Post by **JRF** » Tue Dec 11, 2007 11:30 am

My 2 cents , I just sent a msg to Gmail support , according to lwc guidelines above .

I also ask every PP Forums user to do so !

For your inspiration , this is what I wrote to Gmail :

Brief Summary: Please provide a "real deletion" for Gmail Imap

Full Description: The recent IMAP+IDLE access is the best you have done on client access until now ,

BUT it is not acceptable you leave a copy of the deleted messages in the Gmail\All-mail , they must be in the Gmail\Trash only .

Please keep your principles to give better and more practical features to your users .