Screen Saver: Not Displaying Accounts

[jdanniel]

I have a question about the screen saver.

I sent a few test e-mails to various e-mail accounts of mine. Pop Peeper's popup notification box shows the messages, and the system tray icon shows the correct icons and quantities.

However, when the screen saver kicks in, the only icon is the white icon that displays the total number of messages. No icons for any of the accounts are displayed. There should be three icons, two with one message, one with three messages. That, plus the main white icon.

Is there any configuring I can do to get the screen saver to show the accounts? Thank you. Jd

[mjs]

Hi jdanniel,

I've never used the PP screen saver -- so I installed it to test (it appears to work as intended -- assuming I'm understanding the intent ).

First in the description of the screen saver (link: https://www.esumsoft.com/products/pop-p ... inNotifier) it states: "When the screensaver activates, this plugin shows how many messages each account has with bouncing balls".

Based on my testing this reference to "how many messages" means how many retrieved (new) messages (while the screen saver has been running).

So perhaps the description should read something like: "When the screensaver activates, this plugin shows the bouncing balls for each of the the accounts that have retrieved new messages".

Anyway -- it wasn't easy to test because you have to have the screen saver running when the new messages get retrieved.

As a test I sent 10 messages using various different accounts from one computer to another that had the screen saver on and got this result below:

So it does appear to work for me. I tested 7 different accounts some with multiple messages. It appears there are 5 accounts represented which could be explained because perhaps not all of the accounts messages have been retrieved at the time I captured the screen-shot (there were in fact more messages that were retrieved after I took the screen-shot) so I can't attest totally to the results (but from a cursory examination it does appear to look good to me).

Not ever using the screen saver, at first -- I wasn't sure what the white ball (starting out with the zero in it) represented. But I can see this represents the total number of new messages that have been retrieved while the screen saver is running and each of the other balls represent various different accounts with the number of retrieved messages for each account displayed in each of the different colored balls.

So perhaps you were thinking that the balls should represent messages for each account and not "new" messages. If so -- if you test the screen saver for "new" messages (while the screen savers is running) then perhaps you will find it is working for you as well.

I hope I'm understanding all of this correctly -- but this is how I interpret the way the screen saver works.

[jdanniel]

I think I figured out what the problem is. Before I explain it, let me just say a few things first.

First of all, I would use the phrase "unread" messages, instead of "new messages." Any messages that are read will not be considered "new," and as a result, will not be included in the balls/icons. This may seem at first to be a minor point of semantics, but when I explain in a moment what I think is going on, then this becomes relevant.

Secondly, the screen saver should not have to be actually running for it to receive new, unread mail. It can, but it doesn't have to. Let me explain what I mean. Let's say the screen saver is enabled and running, and you have no new & unread mail. Let's also say you have POP Peeper configured to check mail every five minutes.

Let's NOW say you get an e-mail during those five minutes. Now...the screen saver is up and running. It is not displaying any icons, other than the white ball that shows a total count of messages. That total count should right now be 0.

Five minutes later, POP Peeper checks for new mail, and finds one. This is going on in the background, because your screen saver is up and running.

When Pop Peeper finds that new e-mail, the screen saver should then display a ball for that account, with the number 1 in it. The main white ball should change from 0 to 1.

The screen saver does not have to be running when new mail arrives...HOWEVER...when the screen saver kicks in, it should show balls for any accounts with unread e-mail.

Hopefully, what I've just written makes sense. With all this having been said, here's what I think is going on with my system. Bear with me, here.

I am using the default DAT popup notification window that you recommended. If I do not touch that window at all, and leave it on my screen, then yes...the appropriate balls appear in the screen saver. That is a good thing.

However...if I close that popup notification window, then when the screen saver kicks in, I do NOT see any balls in the screen saver (other than the white one, which says 0).

I'm not sure if this qualifies as a bug, or if it is deliberately designed this way. But the screen saver apparently believes the new, unread e-mail IS no longer new or unread, if I close that popup window. I haven't opened ANY of the e-mail. So, it is still unread. I consider this e-mail still new, because it is unread. This is why I mentioned "unread" at the beginning of this message.

I don't think this should happen. The screen savers should display icons for unread e-mail, regardless of whether I close the popup window or not. I don't know if the software authors will agree or disagree.

That's just my opinion and perspective about this. But I think that's where the issue lies...closing the popup window "clears" the unread & new status of the mail, even if the mail itself isn't opened. I don't think it should be that way.

[Jeff]

Keep in mind that the screensaver plugin has not been updated in 14 years (last update was 2006). That being said, I'm rather shocked that it still works, and works (mostly) as expected.

There are 3 basic states of a message in POP Peeper:
new, unread, read

New does not equal unread. A new message is always unread, but an unread message is not always new. You can see these different states by referencing the "read status" (envelope) column in the message list:
new = blue envelope
unread = yellow, closed envelope
read = white, open envelope

Notifications only report *new* email. If you dismiss the new email (e.g. by closing the DTA, or opening PP, or several other ways), then any new email is no longer considered new. If you use the "remind me later" option (I can't remember if that was on v4 DTA or not...? but I believe so), then the messages should still be considered new (I haven't actually tested this, so let me know if it doesn't).

If you receive new email before the screensaver activates, then the screensaver *will* know that it's new (I tested this). I tested with the main window open (which I suspected wouldn't work, but was wrong) and minimized -- screensaver reported the new email in both cases. Lakrsrool -- perhaps you received the new email in PP and then minimized PP (which would have dismissed the new email)?


I think that that answers all the questions, reiterate any that you may still have.

Regarding the "works (mostly) as expected" I said in the beginning -- the balls were much larger than I remembered them being, but I think it's because I'm using a dual monitor setup and so the available area is much larger and it overcompensates a little (because the height is not proportional to the width). However, it's not really a bad thing, just unexpected.


Oh, one more thing -- I did update the description for screensaver (and a couple others) to clarify "new" email and what the white ball represents.

[mjs]

This is the way I see it.

First regarding your comment:

First of all, I would use the phrase "unread" messages, instead of "new messages." Any messages that are read will not be considered "new," and as a result, will not be included in the balls/icons.

I'm not sure I can totally agree. Instead I'd suggest that any message that does not have a message "Status" of "New" while the screen saver is running will not be represented in the colored balls. Therefore both the message "Status" of either "Unread" and/or "Read" does not impact the count in the colored balls.

Screen-shot of PP displaying the 3 types of message "Status":

3 TYPES OF STATUS.png (5.46 KiB) Viewed 4178 times

This can be tested in this manner:
1) If you close the DTA then when you open the PP main window you will find that the messages that were "New" are now "Unread".
2) If you do not close the DTA but instead Open the PP main window you will find that the messages still have a "Status" of "New".

This coincides precisely with your test results as far as you comments here:

If I do not touch that window at all, and leave it on my screen, then yes...the appropriate balls appear in the screen saver. That is a good thing.

However...if I close that popup notification window, then when the screen saver kicks in, I do NOT see any balls in the screen saver (other than the white one, which says 0).

That is if you close the DTA then you have acknowledged that "New" messages have arrived and because you have acknowledged this PP knows you are aware of the "New" messages and therefore when you Open the PP main window they will no longer be "New" but will instead be "Unread".

On the other hand -- if you "do not touch that window at all [specifically the DTA]" then you have NOT acknowledged that you are aware of the "New" messages and therefore what you will find is when you Open the PP main window the messages will in fact have a "Status" of "New" -- which makes sense because as far as PP is concerned you would not otherwise know there were "New" messages.

Does this make sense?

Addendum: I see that Jeff has posted ahead prior to my post -- hopefully we will be in agreement on my conclusions (I'll check it out forthwith).

[jdanniel]

Hi Jeff, thank you for responding.

A question and a comment.

The question: Could you please elaborate on the "remind me later" option you referred to? What, exactly, does that apply to?

The comment: As I've sat here for the past half hour, I may have changed my mind about something. If you close the DAT popup window, then Pop Peeper is assuming you are aware of the mail that was in that particular list. So, if you're aware of that particular set of e-mail, then maybe it's not necessary to see that set of e-mail in the screen saver. That e-mail may still be unread, but it is no longer "new." If you closed the window, then you know about it.

I'm still leaning in the direction of the screen saver showing "unread" mail, rather than "new," but honestly, this semantic issue is beginning to make my head spin. You said the notifications only show "new" mail, so I may just have to get used to it.

If I close the pop up window, I know about that particular set of e-mail. Done deal.

If, however, mail comes AFTER that previous set, while the screen saver is enabled, then the new set of mail should appear in the balls in the screen saver. I would have to conduct some experiments to see if this is correct. Maybe I can send some e-mail to myself via my phone, while the screen saver is in effect.

[jdanniel]

lakrsrool,

I think we're on the same wavelength now. Take a look at the reply I sent to Jeff. I think you'll see we're in alignment now.

I just have to make a mental adjustment or two.

Jeff said the screen saver hasn't been updated in a long time. It doesn't need to be, but I do hope it will be, if it ever needs to be. For me, honestly, the screen saver is about 90% what this is all about for me.

But I think I understand things better now. Thank you both.

[mjs]

^ The conclusions you reached regarding the Screen Saver are precisely correct.

[Jeff]

The question: Could you please elaborate on the "remind me later" option you referred to? What, exactly, does that apply to?

Here's what the PPv4 DTA looks like:

PPv4_DTA.png (7.01 KiB) Viewed 4173 times

If you press the 3rd button (the clock), that's the "remind me later" option. After pressing it, the DTA will pop up again some time later to remind you that you have new mail pending. The time of the reminder can be specified under:
Tools / Options; Notification: "Popup reminder"

If, however, mail comes AFTER that previous set, while the screen saver is enabled, then the new set of mail should appear in the balls in the screen saver. I would have to conduct some experiments to see if this is correct. Maybe I can send some e-mail to myself via my phone, while the screen saver is in effect.

Yes, because of the unique nature of the screensaver -- that you can't really *do* anything with your computer less the screensaver goes away -- it does add a little more complexity to the testing of this one Lakrsrool alluded to the behavior in his first post, and I've done a sanity check and confirmed it works, so you shouldn't have any issues with it.

[mjs]

To answer your question:

The question: Could you please elaborate on the "remind me later" option you referred to? What, exactly, does that apply to?

As the screen-shot shows there is the optional "Remind me Later" button that can be used to close the DTA and remind you later regarding the message(s):

Remind me Later.png (6.85 KiB) Viewed 4172 times

If you go to "Help" > "Contents" from the main PP window and then click on the "Index" tab at the top and type "Reminder" into the "Keyword" box you will see at the top of the list of "Help" choices "Remind me Later". Double-Click on the "Remind me Later" choice to get more information on this option.

Using the "Help" function can help provide you with a lot of answers to questions.

Addendum: Jeff has once again posted just ahead of me (we must be on the same wave-length)

Anyway --- keep in mind that the "Help" option can provide you with a lot of answers to questions.

[Jeff]

btw, one other thing -- the skin notifier has the capability to "close" the skin without "dismissing" the new email. I think, generally, any close button that the skin author has decided to show will be the "dismiss" action, but you can right-click on the skin and select "close."

I guess I better confirm that behavior before I submit this since it's not something I use myself... Ok, confirmed

[jdanniel]

Jeff and lakrsrool,

Thank you both for your replies and assistance. I'll take a look at the Remind Me Later feature. Thanks again. Jd

[jdanniel]

btw, one other thing -- the skin notifier has the capability to "close" the skin without "dismissing" the new email. I think, generally, any close button that the skin author has decided to show will be the "dismiss" action, but you can right-click on the skin and select "close."

Oh? I'll experiment with that, too!

[mjs]

After observing the screen saver for a longer period of time I can offer a more accurate criteria for when new messages will be displayed in the screen saver which can include new messages that are retrieved either during or prior to when the screen saver started.

The criteria for new screen saver messages to display is the following:
All new messages will display in the screen saver that have arrived subsequent to the last time there was a response to the DTA including the opening of PP which closes the DTA.

Which is to say:
1) All messages will necessarily be displayed in the screen saver that have been retrieved during the time the screen saver is running.
2) Some messages retrieved prior to when the screen saver has started will also be displayed in the event the message(s) were retrieved since the last response to the DTA had occurred.

Which of course makes sense because the screen saver is intended to display all new messages that the user may not be aware of which would include both of the two scenarios above.