Emails Deleted From Microsoft Outlook Still Display In POP Peeper

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Jeff
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Re: Emails Deleted From Microsoft Outlook Still Display In POP Peeper

Post by Jeff »

I think I've found the problem. Protocol -- I'll PM you with details to test this.

While investigating this, I've noticed that Outlook does not *push* this notification to the client. What this means is that it will take up to 15 minutes (or less depending on your polling interval) for PP to know that there's been a change. Whereas Gmail does push a notification when a message is removed so PP will update immediately.

Unfortunately, Outlook's absence of push notifications appears to apply to new messages, too.
Protocol
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Re: Emails Deleted From Microsoft Outlook Still Display In POP Peeper

Post by Protocol »

The problem seems to be fixed.
I'll give it more time to be sure.

I have a question that may be related to this same issue.

Shouldn't "Push" make POP Peeper see a new email immediately regardless of the periodic check that POP Peeper does?
I'm pretty sure it used to. In fact, I think it used to see new emails before Microsoft Outlook saw them.
Now it only sees them after doing the periodic check. 5 minutes, in my case. It also only removes deleted emails after the periodic check.

I've attached a screenshot of my Hotmail / Outlook.com account settings. Email address info has been removed.
Attachments
PP Account Details.png
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mjs
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Re: Emails Deleted From Microsoft Outlook Still Display In POP Peeper

Post by mjs »

I'll just add my input while waiting for Jeff to get back to you.
Protocol wrote: Sat Nov 19, 2022 7:16 pm Shouldn't "Push" make POP Peeper see a new email immediately regardless of the periodic check that POP Peeper does?
Yes (in general, when the message reaches the respective email accounts Server), as long as "Push" is supported by the Email Provider and there's not any issues with any Servers involved or issues with either the Mail Server or Email Client or any kind of software security interference that might possibly impact the "Push" function.

As to your protocol settings (screen-shot) - you are using the same settings that I use for all 17 of my outlook.com accounts, none of which (to my knowledge) have had any issues similar to what you have described (see below).

Edited to strike out comments above in as much as upon testing Push specifically, I've found that Outlook.com accounts are not working after all (I had presumed otherwise based on messages getting retrieved via Scheduled Mail Checks).
Last edited by mjs on Mon Nov 21, 2022 2:25 am, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: Edited to correct mistaken comments
Good judgment comes from experience and a lot of that comes from bad judgment. - Will Rogers
Protocol
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Re: Emails Deleted From Microsoft Outlook Still Display In POP Peeper

Post by Protocol »

Thanks for that info, mjs.
Push is working for you, but not me.

I don't know what to think about that, unless if Microsoft are progressively working on some changes.

I looked to see if there is some sort of setting for push in my Microsoft account settings, but I couldn't see anything.
The push functionality has only broken recently for me.
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mjs
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Re: Emails Deleted From Microsoft Outlook Still Display In POP Peeper

Post by mjs »

Protocol wrote: Sun Nov 20, 2022 10:46 pm Push is working for you, but not me.
My mistake, I should have tested for "Push" - I've been regularly getting outlook.com messages, so assumed it was OK. Upon specifically testing for "Push", I can confirm as well that outlook.com "Push" does not appear to be working after all (all messages are getting retrieved via "Scheduled" Mail Check polling intervals as it turns out). I should have checked this out in more detail based on Jeff's post (if nothing else), sorry for the confusion. :oops: (it seems we're all in the same boat w/out "Push" working for Outlook.com accounts).

Fortunately it looks like Jeff may have found the problem.
Protocol wrote: Sat Nov 19, 2022 7:16 pm The problem seems to be fixed.
I'll give it more time to be sure.
So then, it isn't actually fixed after all?
Good judgment comes from experience and a lot of that comes from bad judgment. - Will Rogers
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Jeff
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Re: Emails Deleted From Microsoft Outlook Still Display In POP Peeper

Post by Jeff »

As I mentioned, Outlook is not pushing any notifications. I don't use Outlook as a primary account, so I can't really say how long it's been this way, but I suspect that it would coincide with about the same time that you started having problems with POP Peeper not removing messages that have been deleted from the server. That being said, PP still benefits by keeping IDLE enabled because it still doesn't have to log in every X minutes and so doing on-demand things like retrieving the current message is much snappier than if it had to log in. On the other hand, Outlook is removing one of the main advantages of IDLE which is instant notification. I'm guessing it's either a server-side bug or they disabled it intentionally for performance reasons.

Anyway, glad to hear that the original problem is resolved. But keep me posted if you see anything strange; I'll probably release v5.4.3 to the early-release... tomorrow, maybe. I usually like to run it myself for a few days first but this is a pretty isolated change.
Last edited by Jeff on Mon Nov 21, 2022 3:02 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: clarification that the possibility of an idle-notification bug is "server-side"
Protocol
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Re: Emails Deleted From Microsoft Outlook Still Display In POP Peeper

Post by Protocol »

mjs wrote: Mon Nov 21, 2022 2:03 am
Protocol wrote: Sat Nov 19, 2022 7:16 pm The problem seems to be fixed.
I'll give it more time to be sure.
So then, it isn't actually fixed after all?
There are two issues which I thought may be related.
The original issue was the one with the email staying visible in POP Peeper's inbox when deleted from Microsoft Outlook. This issue may be fixed.
The second issue was "Push", which is broken. I thought it may be related, but I could be wrong.
Protocol
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Re: Emails Deleted From Microsoft Outlook Still Display In POP Peeper

Post by Protocol »

Jeff wrote: Mon Nov 21, 2022 2:58 pm As I mentioned, Outlook is not pushing any notifications. I don't use Outlook as a primary account, so I can't really say how long it's been this way, but I suspect that it would coincide with about the same time that you started having problems with POP Peeper not removing messages that have been deleted from the server. That being said, PP still benefits by keeping IDLE enabled because it still doesn't have to log in every X minutes and so doing on-demand things like retrieving the current message is much snappier than if it had to log in. On the other hand, Outlook is removing one of the main advantages of IDLE which is instant notification. I'm guessing it's either a server-side bug or they disabled it intentionally for performance reasons.

Anyway, glad to hear that the original problem is resolved. But keep me posted if you see anything strange; I'll probably release v5.4.3 to the early-release... tomorrow, maybe. I usually like to run it myself for a few days first but this is a pretty isolated change.
Thanks, Jeff.

I rarely log into Outlook.com with a browser, but I did yesterday.
They've made a lot of changes since I last visited.

Something must have broken with regards to IDLE/Push.
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Jeff
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Re: Emails Deleted From Microsoft Outlook Still Display In POP Peeper

Post by Jeff »

v5.4.3 is now available to the early release channel (PRO licensees only: main menu: Tools / PPtweaker / Troubleshooting).
Protocol
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Re: Emails Deleted From Microsoft Outlook Still Display In POP Peeper

Post by Protocol »

Done.

I'll see how it goes. 👍

I think the ads that are being implemented into Outlook.com accounts are going to cause problems for POP Peeper in the future.
The silly thing about it is that the ads are for Microsoft 365, which I already have.
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