Notification Fail

[Chuck7]

Hello,
Over the last few days I’ve noticed when I’ve gotten a new email, POP Peeper will notify me about 60% of the time; {Then, when I display POP Peeper’s Main Window, sure enough it’s displaying the new, unnotified email}. This has caused me to delay responding to some really important emails.
Is this normal behavior?
Is there anything I can do to decrease its Fail-to-Notify frequency?!

Thank you for your help!

Chuck

P.S. I use POP Peeper only for a single GMail account.

[Jeff]

What notifications are you using?
When you see the message(s) in the list, what is its status icon? e.g. open white envelope (read), closed yellow envelope (unread), blue envelope (new). Only the blue envelope status would initiate a "new mail" event.
What method are you using to access GMail (as it may be relevant at some point in troubleshooting)? Edit the account and refer to the "server type"

The only thing I can think of that may be relevant, because I have personally never missed a notification, so I suspect that there's some particular reason this is happening: if you receive a new message and then PP is exited/restarted (ie. Window shutdown/restart/etc), that message will no longer be new.

[Chuck7]

Hi Jeff, & thank you for responding!

On a missed notification, the tray icon will be blue;
POP Peeper stays on _All-The-Time_. I have Zero reason to ever turn it off when my computer is on. I do not know what you meant by "server type" as I did not see that setting in GMail.

The visual notifications (Which Fail) are supposed to be •"Display Desktop Alert", And •"Flash Scroll Lock". These Fail(!); {the sound Probably occurs, but if I am in the other room I can't hear the sound}. What I would like, of course, is that:: When I return from another room, the above visual displays need to be present; In their absence, I will miss all new emails.

Chuck

[mjs]

On a missed notification, the tray icon will be blue

Yes, the tray icon will display a blue envelope (and wagging red flag) if new mail has arrived (red envelope if junk mail is included in that new mail). Also if you are using the Desktop Alert ("Tools" > "Options" > "Notification" tab) then as long as you do not open the Pop Peeper interface (main window) or "dismiss" the Desktop Alert the Alert should remain displayed (but only if you have done neither of these two things as well not have exited Pop Peeper or shut Windows down). So if you do have Pop Peeper set to use the Desktop Alert and a non-yellow envelope is displayed in the Pop Peeper tray icon then the Desktop Alert should be displayed as well in that case which will list the "new" mail which will be mail that in turn will display a blue envelope in the Pop Peeper main window if it is subsequently opened.

I do not know what you meant by "server type" as I did not see that setting in GMail.

Edit your Gmail account; one way is to right-click on the account in the left pane (column) of the Pop Peeper interface (main window) then select "Edit..." from the context menu make sure the "General" tab is selected in the left pane of the Edit Account Window and look for the "Server type" setting you are using.

Please post the "Server type" you are using in this topic.

In regards to where

... if you receive a new message and then PP is exited/restarted (ie. Window shutdown/restart/etc), that message will no longer be new.

... I would add the same thing will occur if all you do is close the Pop Peeper interface. That is, besides what Jeff mentioned, if "new" mail was displayed (blue envelope) in the interface (Pop Peeper main window) when you happen to open Pop Peeper (as you stated "when I display POP Peeper’s Main Window") and then close the Pop Peeper interface (main window), the next time you open Pop Peeper again the "new" mail that listed previously will no longer display as "new" but will instead display as "unread" mail (yellow envelope) assuming you did not "read" the former "new" mail.

Example, the screen-shots below are the same area of my main Window in Pop Peeper opening the interface the first time then closing the interface and then once again opening the interface a second time. You will notice that the "new" mail (blue envelopes) change to unread envelopes (yellow) after only closing and opening the Interface.

When Jeff mentioned:

When you see the message(s) in the list, what is its status icon? e.g. open white envelope (read), closed yellow envelope (unread), blue envelope (new). Only the blue envelope status would initiate a "new mail" event.

... I assume he is referring to what is displayed in the "Read status" in regards to the envelope icon in this column of the Pop Peeper interface (main window). You can see in the images below there are blue (new), yellow (unread) and white (read) messages in the first image when I first opened the Pop Peeper interface. And as I pointed out after closing and then opening Pop Peeper again (without me doing anything) all of the former blue (new) messages have changed to yellow (unread) as you can see in the second example below.

What I have in this first example after opening Pop Peeper the first time after new mail has arrived where you can see "new" mail (blue envelope) as well as the unread mail (yellow envelope) and read mail (white envelope) and of course "new" mail counts in the "new" mail column of left pane:

First time POP Peeper is opened

Read Status column.png (5.76 KiB) Viewed 8636 times

Closing the Pop Peeper main window and then opening it again keeping in mind that no new mail had arrived and I had not read any mail in the interim we find the only thing that changes is the new mail (blue envelopes) are tagged as unread mail (yellow envelope) and of course the "new" mail counts no longer display in the "new" mail column of left pane since in this case there is now no more "new" mail, everything else remaining the same as before:

Closed the Pop Peeper window and then opened it again, change that occurs is that "new" mail becomes "unread" mail.

Read Status column after only closing and opening interface again.png (5.62 KiB) Viewed 8636 times

This is perhaps where there may be confusion regarding "new" mail. (The premise here is that if Pop Peeper is opened and "new" mail is listed then this will of course be observed so as of the time the Pop Peeper main window interface is then subsequently closed the former "new" mail should no longer be considered "new" mail)

[Chuck7]

Thank you, lakrsrool, for your reply!

The Server-type is:: IMAP / SSL / imap.gmail.com / Port 993 / with IDLE Checked.

When the Notification Fail occurs, POP Peeper’s window is NOT open, and I keep the Option “Hide tray icon if mailbox does not contain new messages” checked — due to the trouble I have had being notified of new mail: i.e.: it helps (a Tiny Bit) to have a Very different tray display when there is new mail. This problem likewise caused me to switch to Option “Display Desktop Alert” whereas I actually prefer “Open POP Peeper”.

So you can be absolutely assured that I will change Any & Every Option that might correct this Notification-Fail issue.

Here is what I mean by “New Mail” in this discussion: I am referring ONLY to an email that has NEVER been listed—Not in POP Peeper; Absolutely Not in the Client (since I want to only see email in POP Peeper); & of course Not in any Notification since that is the issue. It is an email that I have received but have NOT been notified of. So, here is what has been happening:: In the course of my work, I will Just Happen to glance at the Tray (to access another program) & notice the blue mailbox (with dismay since it means that, yet once again, the Notification Failed).

Thank you both again for your assistance! (Please note that my company is having me work a Huge amount of overtime this week, which may cause a bit of delay in my replies.)

Chuck

[Jeff]

When the Notification Fail occurs, POP Peeper’s window is NOT open

In hindsight, *that* should have been "the only thing I can think of that may be relevant" as an open PP window would certainly change the notifications anyway...

One thing I'm a little confused by:

This problem likewise caused me to switch to Option “Display Desktop Alert” whereas I actually prefer “Open POP Peeper”.

But neither option works, correct? It should be noted that using the option to "open POP Peeper" will dismiss certain other notifications (including flash scroll lock), but I'm assuming you're suggesting that PP would not be opened when you came back when you had that option set? That being said, for now, do *not* go back to the "open PP" option so that we can continue to troubleshoot.

I still think it's important that you let us know whether the individual message status' are displaying as "new" or not. That is, if you discover PP has missed a notification, and you open PP, you need to review the "message status" for the messages that you expect are new. See lakrsrool's screenshots for reference. At least one message must have the blue envelope for the "new email" actions to occur. To help find any such messages, you can use the main menu: Messages / "hide seen messages" -- toggle it on and only messages with the "blue envelope" should be listed (don't forget to toggle it back off). btw, be sure to check this message status before you open the message; otherwise, the message will already have lost its "new" status.


Also, do you have the following option enabled:
- main menu: Tools / Options
- "Tray Icon" page
-> "Tray icon reflects status of unread messages instead of new messages" (it's the last option on that page)

[mjs]

When the Notification Fail occurs, POP Peeper’s window is NOT open

In hindsight, *that* should have been "the only thing I can think of that may be relevant" as an open PP window would certainly change the notifications anyway...

During my testing this morning (testing different combinations of settings including "hide icon" which I've never used and various notification settings) if I've got the "Notification" setting "When I receive mail" set to "Open POP Peeper" when new mail arrives and the Pop Peeper interface opens due to "new" mail arriving I do get the "new" mail displayed as expected with the blue (new mail) envelope in the Pop Peeper interface inbox however admittedly while "new" mail is listed in the email accounts inbox as expected the tray icon will no longer reflect the "new" mail "blue" envelope due to POP Peeper getting opened (also to be expected).

Anyway Chuck7, be sure and follow all the suggestions Jeff listed above to troubleshoot this including not using the "Open PP" option for now.

So for me when all is said and done, testing over 25 Gmail messages (including grouped with other account messages) using various combinations of settings all work as expected. There were Gmail IMAP server delays a few times but ultimately I did not miss any "new" messages during the entire test sequence.

Also, do you have the following option enabled:
- main menu: Tools / Options
- "Tray Icon" page
-> "Tray icon reflects status of unread messages instead of new messages" (it's the last option on that page)

That's a good one to check on, I didn't test for this which would certainly make a difference regarding the tray icon, but then from what I understand the tray icon is displaying the "blue" new mail envelope in this case.

[Chuck7]

Jeff & lakrsrool:

I have always kept the Option “Tray icon reflects status of unread messages instead of new messages” UNchecked;
(which, if I recall correctly, is the default).

The following probably don’t have any effect on this issue but, for completeness, my computer is Win-7 64 bit, and I always close POP Peeper’s main window by pressing Escape (which seems to work identically to pressing Alt-F4 since “Close button will minimize POP Peeper” is checked).

The reason I chose “Display Desktop Alert” rather than “Open POP Peeper” is because of the issue we’re discussing, i.e., POP Peeper’s window is ALWAYS closed except when I double-click the tray icon for a new message (or if Notification worked, click the PP button). The only way I can ever tell that POP Peeper is running is by opening a Task Manager of some sort; and POP Peeper’s Auto-Start (with -min) has always worked perfectly.

Thank you,

Chuck

P.S., Over the past few days, I have kept a tally of the percentage of times that Notification (except for the presence of the tray icon) Succeeds, and it turns out my earlier estimate (60%) was low: It has been running about 72% (72% of the time when new mail has arrived—notification occurs). And I should also note that I always try to keep ZERO messages in my GMail inbox: Inbox messages that I still need to act on are immediately moved to Folder "Inbox2".

[mjs]

And I should also note that I always try to keep ZERO messages in my GMail inbox: Inbox messages that I still need to act on are immediately moved to Folder "Inbox2".

How are you doing this procedure of moving "inbox messages" you "need to act on" to another folder "immediately"? I'm asking this because you have previously said:

I am referring ONLY to an email that has NEVER been listed—Not in POP Peeper; Absolutely Not in the Client (since I want to only see email in POP Peeper)

.... and if you are redirecting mail to another folder or label automatically using the Gmail Client filter settings process that is applied to all incoming mail then Pop Peeper would never have the opportunity to even know about the incoming messages that match the specific filter criteria you are using to accomplish this outcome.

[Chuck7]

lakrsrool:
I do these moves only after I have read All New messages, then I manually move them into their respective folders –– Never via filters. {I do have some filters by which I auto-delete spam.} I find that keeping my “Inbox” empty has helped to ensure that I always take action on new messages (though I know that brighter folk can do this right in their inbox).
Chuck

[mjs]

This raises a few more questions:

1) In reference to "I do these moves only after I have read All New messages", how are you accomplishing the "read All New messages"? (via Gmail Client on the web using your browser or waiting on messages to arrive in the Pop Peeper inbox)

2) And when you move your "new" messages "into their respective folders", the "folders" you are referring to are additional folders in your Gmail Client (not POP Peeper)?

3) How are you determining that some "new" messages fail to reach POP Peeper? (i.e. are you seeing the "missing" messages displayed in the Gmail Client inbox on the web using your browser that are not displayed in the Pop Peeper inbox?)

4) Have you made any modifications or additions to the Pop Peeper Junk Mail filter?

Addendum: I got a bit off-track w/ question 3, the issue is "Notification-Fail" and not that there are any "missing" messages in PP, so scratch as irrelevant to the topic - sorry about that.

[Chuck7]

lakrsrool,
1. I always read the messages in POP Peeper, even if it was necessary to learn of them only via the tray icon.
2. Yes, GMail Folders. (I did not know of the availability of moving to PP folders.)
3. I never use GMail on the internet except when necessary. I notice a Notification-Fail when the PP icon appears in the tray with no Notification.
4. I’ve never used PP’s Junk Filter. So far, I have handled spam by creating a filter in GMail – which seems to work really well.
Thanks,
Chuck

[Jeff]

I don't keep any of my accounts so clean, so thinking that maybe it was related, I found one of my obscure gmail addresses and cleaned it out and did some experimenting with it.. I couldn't get it to fail. Regardless, have you noticed any correlation as to whether a clean inbox or not causes the failure? Finding a pattern when it fails vs succeeds is very important at this point, so try to keep an eye on any patterns.

When you say:
"I never use GMail on the internet except when necessary"
by this, do you mean using GMail in a webbrowser?
And do you use any other methods of accessing the gmail account? e.g. phone?

And, in case the above answers don't already clarify it -- when you move your gmail messages to folders, you're using POP Peeper's "Move to" feature to do that?

I'd also like to bring up one other question that has been asked a couple times but I don't think you've addressed: when you do not get the expected notifications; you see the new mail tray icon; you open PP -- do any messages have the blue, new email message status?

Oh, also: in that series above: *before* you open PP to check if any messages have the new email message status -- hover your mouse over the tray icon. It will say something like "1 New / 1130 unread / 9270 total / 1 Junk" -- does it in fact say how many messages are "new"?

I notice a Notification-Fail when the PP icon appears in the tray with no Notification.

Before, I was under the impression that the fail generally occurred when you were out of the room. But does it happen when you're sitting at the computer?

Does POP Peeper report an error when you open PP after a notification fail?
Also, what does the statusbar say in this case (e.g. "4 minutes remaining until next mail check")?


Sorry for all the seemingly random questions, I've just never heard of this happening and not sure what's going on; all my questions do have a specific reason why I'm asking them, though...

[Chuck7]

Jeff,
No, I don’t think having a clean inbox makes any difference. It’s a big help to me however since a new email is more starkly apparent.
By saying "I never use GMail on the internet" I mean that I always try to access my email via POP Peeper. No, my phone is an ancient "flip phone" – I do not have a "smart" phone.
Yes, I move mail to their respective GMail folders using PP’s Move feature.
Yes, when I open an unnotified new email via the tray icon, its read status in PP’s Main Window is "New".
Yes, the tray icon reports the number of new messages.
Yes, when Notify fails, it does sometimes happen when I’m at my computer. Today this has happened zero times.
When Notify fails, PP reports no error. Per the tray icon, PP knows it has received an email, it just doesn’t know it did not invoke the 2 visual displays (Alert & LED).
Thank You! Chuck

[Jeff]

Ok, what I think we'll have to do is -- I'll make a special pp.exe that logs what's going on in this situation. I'm not sure if I'll have time to do it this weekend, but I'll try.

One thing that will help to narrow down what needs to be logged -- are you using per-account sounds or single sound? This is under Tools / Options / Notification -- directly underneath the "new mail" checkbox; if you don't see those choices, go to the General page and enable "Advanced options" then you will be able to see them and confirm which one is being used.

Also, we'll need to move this to email so I can send the file(s) to you. Is the email address you registered with the forum good?

[Chuck7]

Hi Jeff,
Actually, I think I have an idea that would be easier.
The email I just received (regarding the message you posted at 3:19) did not notify, but that was because today I doing some organizing at the GMail website, & that website may have been open then. I am going to daily track every instance I don’t receive a Notification to see what exactly I am doing on my machine to better determine if I can spot any pattern. It is very embarrassing to admit this, but at my first report, I don’t think I was aware as I ought to have been as to exactly what was occurring on my computer at the times the Notification didn’t happen.
I Very Much appreciate your & lakrsrool’s assistance with this issue, but I really should have been more prepared about it than I was. One positive thing about it, on the other hand, is that I have now painstakingly evaluated Every available PP Option, so I am now more knowledgdable as to what is offered in this great application.
Again, thank you very much for your help!
Chuck

[mjs]

The email I just received (regarding the message you posted at 3:19) did not notify, but that was because today I doing some organizing at the GMail website, & that website may have been open then.

Chuck, If I may, I'll just post my 2-cents on this point and leave it for you and Jeff to work out (however as further explained below, in my opinion it would be best to go ahead with the purposed plan).

Okay my 2-cents, just having the Gmail website open in your browser would not be able to cause the Pop Peeper "Desktop Alert" notification to fail to notify if in fact "new" mail did arrive in Pop Peeper. I'm assuming you have the forum set to notify you when replies get posted and for Jeff's forum reply the "Desktop Alert" failed to notify for that message. To my knowledge if you have the "Display Desktop Alert" enabled and you get the "Blue" envelope displayed in the tray icon as you have said you do then I'm not aware of any possible way that the "Desktop Alert" would not notify at that same time. And what is even more mystifying is that the issue is apparently intermittent so that sometimes the "Desktop Alert" does successfully notify and other times it fails to notify and along with this at the same time the "blue" envelope tray icon reliably notifies every time which is frankly even more inexplicable. Point being, if you get the "blue" envelope "new" mail notification in the Tray icon then there is absolutely no reason why you should not get the "Desktop Alert" displayed at that same time as well pretty much regardless of what you might be doing on your computer. So in my view this specific issue of "notification failure" would seemingly have to be confined to a process intrinsic to POP Peeper and consequently it would certainly be important to attribute a cause to this puzzling event.

[Chuck7]

lakrsrool,
Yes, you described the situation precisely: POP Peeper placed the blue icon into the tray, but the two visual notifications (Alert & LED) were not invoked. (You guys did nice icons, btw.) And I was mistaken in thinking that because I [may have] had the Gmail website open, that could have "absorbed" the 2 visual alerts – especially since, when I opened PP’s window, the new email also displayed there as completely New. Strange indeed.
One other detail I forgot to mention about my PC is that I always have a memory-manager running.

Woops! I forgot to answer the other questions: Under Audio Notification, I have Always had "Single Sound" checked;
And yes, my Forum email is my main one.

Thanks,
Chuck

[Jeff]

Chuck -- ok, one more "logical" possibility.

By default, POP Peeper will not display any 'popup' notifications if a full-screen app is detected at the time of new email, e.g. games, videos, but also screensavers (it is *not* affected by regular windows that are maximized). This would obviously explain "open PP" and "desktop alert" but -- and I only realized this after looking into the code -- it also affects the LED (I'm on the fence as to whether it should, but I'm leaning toward keeping the current logic as I can see reasons for not wanting the LED to come on; especially as it could affect games).

So, is this a possible explanation?

If you want to play with that option, it's under main menu: Tools / PPtweaker / Misc 2: "detect full-screen apps..." (first option). You could try changing it to "allow all notifications" and see if that makes a difference.

[Chuck7]

Hi Jeff,
Yes, it absolutely is the possible explanation, because I think that my Firefox runs “full-screen” ! !

Also, thank you for recalling that option to “Detect Full-Screen Apps” —which I have now changed to the “Allow All” setting.

And Finally, since your Help & Options functions are so excellent in POP Peeper, I do have one suggestion::
My Favorite File Manager (which is Also awesome) has an Astoundingly Exhaustive set of options (hundreds & hundreds), so what that author did to help people locate the desired option is include a button (“Jump to Setting”) which is on the bottom of every option page. When you click on that button & type a word .. EVERY option that includes that word (or a synonym) appears in a drop-down; When you click on an item in the drop-down the program places you in the referenced setting. That may be a bit too much, I guess, but it’s an idea .

Thank you for all your help!
Chuck